Curse

Lady Raenef · Jan 05, 2008, 10:00 PM // 22:00

The solution to bot farming is to just...ignore it, in my opinion.

FeroxC · Jan 05, 2008, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyinhigh

1: I am as smart as you, maybe smarter.
2: randomization only goes so far, your randomization will maybe screw up the first few bots to encounter it, then it will be re designed to account for it.
(example c + space=bot went around crack in land)
3: you can program into the bot randomization within certain set limits, like activating skills in sequence.
4: i can make a bot tell if there is a gold or if its a crap white here it is pixelgetcolor 18502 230:480 270:480
5: i can make a bot read its called image compare sequence
6: if you can do it i can make a bot do it.

Lets face it, your bots not using any real path finding algorithms is it ? With a static path any seriouse amount of randomization is probably going to seriously screw it up

Your bot wouldnt be able to get round a captcha without manual input even OCR can't read them.

Quote:

6: if you can do it i can make a bot do it.

I bet you cant make a bot play the game "Go"

I Phoenix I · Jan 06, 2008, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freke

How about bring back the tag system where after 10 times of doing the same place it asks the question, if the person gets it right anet has a small "this is to prevent botters" message, if they dont answer for 5 minutes they get temporarily banned (or some other thing)

*Time to Vanquish Old Ascalon!

(kills things)

O crap! I need to pick little Billy up!

(runs off)

WTFUXXORS PERMANBANNED!11!!1!!one!!eleventyone!!1!*

I Phoenix I · Jan 06, 2008, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

I can play chess. Can your bot beat me to it?

Deep Blue.

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UnKn0wN415 · Jan 06, 2008, 04:48 AM // 04:48

verified image has solve some bots for some MMO games but in reality nothing can be done just ignore it...

cerb · Jan 06, 2008, 08:39 AM // 08:39

Pay no attention to flyinhigh, he's just a noob who toy around with AutoIt. Back on topic though: no solutions are flawless. If captchas or any type of verification is established, it will just give the user a worse experience (seriously, who likes loot scaling, AoE nerf, ...) and they can be bypassed with OCR's (Character Recognition algorythms).

Those who suggested pathing stuff: if you have ever played D2, you would know this doesn't matter at all. All levels were random and bots were as smart if not smarter than humans, and many undetectable. People could get 100$++ worth of stuff overnight and sell all on eBay the next day. Bots had advanced pathing algorythms, could find the shortest path bypassing all possible obstructing objects, and you could tell them what items you want them to pick up.

There are also gold items (pretty much the same principle as GW) where you could tell the bot to pick it up only if it met certain requirements. So many players used bots and they didn't do any illegal (stuff that players aren't supposed to do) stuff, there was no way to straight up tell if it was a bot or not. What happened? Blizzard made it so that if you join a game right after you leave one, it will fail and you will have to wait some time before trying to join again.

The same week, people introduced functionality to prevent the bots from joining next games right away. And bots even had functionality to "take breaks" to behave like human players (a human wouldnt play D2 24 hours in a row right?).

Blizzard replied by introducing Warden, a hidden program that would detect if any process attached itself to the D2 process (bots/hack loading) and send suspicious information to blizzard secretly at intervals. The hackers quickly learned about this, and simply prevented Warden from sending any reports.

So now you have D2, filled with bots and hacks, all undetectable, and Blizzard letting the game die slowly while they focus on WoW / SC2.

My solution to prevent bots? Fill every level with Shutdown Mesmers (with Signet of Humility!), monsters with Chillblains, Wild Blow and interrupts. Oh and immune to player traps.

Wildi · Jan 06, 2008, 01:03 PM // 13:03

This thread is full of terrible suggestions, so here is my terrible suggestion:

Instead of loot scaling and hidden anti farm code simply make mobs disappear for a while which you killed the last time. This way people continually have to change their farming spots and can't simply rezone and kill the same mobs repeatly. For real people its not a big deal to change farming spots for a while but for bot users it would be harder.

FeroxC · Jan 06, 2008, 05:59 PM // 17:59

Cerb, Yea wikipedia says certain research departments in Unis have used OCR to bypass professional captchas but in the real world they haven't.

True D2 used randomization but besides being 2d, D2 was reverse engineered to the extent that they had enough game data to implement algorithms like shortest path. The D2hackit framework(which the bots were built on) captured and identified all packets sent to the client giving bot writers all the data theyd ever need.

Hopefully GW hasn't been deciphered to that extent yet so i suspect the farmers are still using lame Autoit scripts which have fixed paths and scan for items by pixel colour lol,which are vulnerable to randomization.

Freke · Jan 06, 2008, 06:01 PM // 18:01

Phoenix why would you be vanquishing old ascalon 10 times in a row? i mean enter the map, do something, leave, come back, same thing, leave, etc... 10 times.

I Phoenix I · Jan 06, 2008, 08:44 PM // 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freke

Phoenix why would you be vanquishing old ascalon 10 times in a row? i mean enter the map, do something, leave, come back, same thing, leave, etc... 10 times.

Lol, for some reason I read that as 10 minutes and not times ><"

Mac Sidewinder · Jan 06, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by cerb

My solution to prevent bots? Fill every level with Shutdown Mesmers (with Signet of Humility!), monsters with Chillblains, Wild Blow and interrupts. Oh and immune to player traps.

I won't start the argument about whether farming is a ligit way to play or not. Some people play simply to farm and they should not be punished because of bot problems.

But if you think that filling levels with those kind of mobs then now you will really be limiting the skill sets that people use. There are some skills that people never use now and this would only increase that number. Why bring enchantments if they will be stripped constantly, why bring stances if they will be removed constantly, etc.

No I don't think this is the way to do it, unless you desire that only a very few skill bars be played for each profession. Look at some of the elite areas now. Only a few skill bars are played there. Do you want the same thing to happen everywhere?

warcrap · Jan 07, 2008, 02:02 AM // 02:02

how about useless and annoying random events like in rs.

cerb · Jan 07, 2008, 04:55 AM // 04:55

@ Mac Sidewinder : I was being satyric. My point is that you cannot stop botting, without literally ruining the user experience.

@ FeroxC : I know what D2HackIt! is, and the thing with D2 is that everything (or most things) were released to communities (mostly supporting hacks or bots), and these were HUGE. Blizzhackers, for instance, must've had around 200K members if not more.

The same could have happened to GW, if it had received more attention. I'm sure there is plenty of hacker communities for WoW because there is a huge number of players. Take Warcraft III for example. You will meet very few hackers (I refer to hackers as people who use hacks, not people who actually make them), perhaps one for each ten thousand players. However, much has been discovered, in fact, someone I know (he's from the D2 Hacking scene) had reverse engineered enough of the game to create a D2JSP equivalent to Warcraft 3. He actually wanted to call it W3JSP, but this project has been abandoned because of the low demand.

However, my point is, more *could have* been found than one would imagine, it's just not released publicly.

The Meth · Jan 07, 2008, 05:04 AM // 05:04

Here's how to solve the bot 'problem' : ignore them.

Seriously, bots only hurt vain people who think they need obsidian armor sets/rare low req weps/rare minis to have a sense of accomplishment.

As long as players can get max armor, a max weapon and can buy the skills they want bots have no effect on gameplay. On the other hand, bots pay the same for their accounts as you do and are therefore supporting the game.

HuntMaster Avatar · Jan 07, 2008, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Here's how to solve the bot 'problem' : ignore them.

Seriously, bots only hurt vain people who think they need obsidian armor sets/rare low req weps/rare minis to have a sense of accomplishment.

As long as players can get max armor, a max weapon and can buy the skills they want bots have no effect on gameplay. On the other hand, bots pay the same for their accounts as you do and are therefore supporting the game.

bots increase lag. also most people who bot buy accounts in the game using plat they farmed. they do not always spend money on new accounts.

i see account buyers everyday on gw, they mock being reported.

another easy solution, human players can't farm constantly, they have to eat and use the bathroom. bots constantly farm, return to town, sell crap that isnt on their "keep list" and return to farming. normally with little to no breaks. any character found constantly active gets a disconnect. unless the program running the mod can reconnect and set itself up again this will break the cycle. many botters activate their bots and then go to sleep or do other things.

also a random msg may help. once every hour a new msg pops up that must be answered. keep the msgs secret and add new ones all the time, but keep them simple so not to break the flow of a human player.

or add a new icon window that pops up, like trade icon, if the player doesnt press the icon within the time limit they get a disconnect. these icons should not have a quick key to click them, one must use a mouse in order to click them. (bad idea if you dont use a mouse.)

these disconnects will not have the option to reconnect to the area, which will drop the botter from the area completely and require them to start all over again.

i see no solution that will not be a pain in the neck for legit players. my ideas are crap but can be improved on by people with a better understanding on how these things work.

sky sliverwolf · Jan 07, 2008, 11:50 AM // 11:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadow Spirit

As long as there are people willing to part with RL cash for in-game gold. There will be bots

This is the only way to end bots in games. DONT BUY GOLD FOR RL CASH!!!!!! You can come up with 100 dif ways on stopping them by changing this or that. But not buying gold online is the ONLY way to stop them!

Fril Estelin · Jan 07, 2008, 12:01 PM // 12:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by sky sliverwolf

This is the only way to end bots in games. DONT BUY GOLD FOR RL CASH!!!!!! You can come up with 100 dif ways on stopping them by changing this or that. But not buying gold online is the ONLY way to stop them!

Agree, but think about it carefully: it can't be done easily, as incentives for not doing that are very difficult to put in place. It's the old "I do it because I can" reasoning and arguments like "but doing this you socially damage a lot of people in a way that you don't see" can be ignored very easily (and I should add that judgements like "you're lazy" or "you should be more fair play" will be ignored even more easily).

You'd ultimately to have to make that illegal in the real world (like money laundering), but many people will tell you that "this is a joke", as videogames are still perceived by many (including politicians, though it's changing, see this republican who organised a march in WoW) as a leisure and nothing very serious.

As someone said on another thread, at least in GW, all you can get is a small gain in time and a visual advantage, no increase stats or uber-weapons (yeah sure one can brag with its mini polar bear+panda+beetle, but I actually see that as a form of weakness that a guy would spend so much real money on these miniAI in a no-monthly-fee MMO).

Whirlwind · Jan 07, 2008, 12:09 PM // 12:09

On another note, since money in GW doesn't really mean anything, why does it matter?

trufaux · Jan 07, 2008, 06:36 PM // 18:36

If you spot a potential bot, report that player using the command (/report). That's pretty much all you can do about bots: either report or ignore them.

sterbenx2 · Jan 07, 2008, 06:47 PM // 18:47

All I would like to say is, how many BOTs are faming UW?

Why? Rend Enchantments & too many interrupts.

Add some Enchant removal and Interrupts to all maps. Not so many that it would make the players crazy. The little Rend guys in UW can be killed with a couple of wand hits, but its still far too random for the bot to compensate for.

We all know that all of the best farm builds rely heavily on enchants. It may be a little tougher for us players to farm, but we can get around it, the bot can't.

but I suspect that GW2 will have minimal botting.. and I hope.. NO LIVE ECONOMY! plz..